My wife and I often play a game called “Where else in the world would we live?” Usually, it’s borne out of our great hunger for international travel and a curiosity about people and cultures in other countries, an appetite not easily satisfied by a week here or a week there. The insights that come from living in a place are always different—deeper, richer—when you can go beyond the featured attractions and experience everyday life. (Not that I don’t take a boat ride to see the architecture along the Chicago River every time I visit, even though Chicago is my hometown.)
The question of “where else” is typically raised with a playful combination of general curiosity and genuine hunger for the new—and yes, sometimes a desire for momentary escape from everyday life. Just imagine what it could be like to live in Kyoto or Vancouver or Berlin or London. Maybe for some months, maybe for much longer. But idle imagining aside, I’ve been hearing from others (and sometimes wondering myself) whether the day could come when living somewhere else is a necessary response to the growing hostilities and anti-democratic pressures in America. The word used is not moving but fleeing—not jumping but feeling pushed. (For the record, I’m not planning on it.)
So with either frame in mind—the playful reflection or the more serious worrying—I’d love to hear what you think: Where else in the world would you live? As always, I ask you to be respectful of each other.
May I say: I didn’t anticipate the outpouring of deeply felt thoughts and experiences on this topic. I greatly appreciate it. But more, it underscores how unsettled these last years have been for so many of us who seek better.
I made my decision. After reading the transcripts in the Dobbs case, I decided that the USA was on its last legs. The question was how long would the slide from democracy to a theocracy that would make Margaret Atwood shudder. I started the process of emigration in January and Moved at the end of June.
I chose the UK. I have visited here often since childhood. I have always loved everything about this country - The people have always been amazing, the history and culture are phenomenal, and the geography and weather have always appealed to me. It was no choice. When I fled America it would be to either the UK or mainland Europe, probably Germany. I was able to find a job here, and got my Visa in a reasonable time - even with the Ukraine crisis.
As a Gay man with a family - I could not risk staying in the US, particularly in Texas. There is no place in the US safe from the Talibangelicals and Q-Cumbers. There is no Blue state - only red states with pockets of Blue. By the Time Dobbs was released, my Visa was in hand. Clarence Thomas' concurrence just proved that I was right. They were coming for me next. Congress would make noise, but do nothing. In fact, short of an amendment - which would not happen - what could they do that the Trump court would not strike down. Democrats had already proved that they were too cowardly to expand the court - which is the only thing that would stop the ideologues.
Yes - a lot of the same forces destroying the US are also at play here. I think Europes experience with Fascism makes them more resistant - They aren't brainwashed since birth by the idea of their own exceptionalism just because of the mistake of their citizenship. They seem more apt to believe fact over dogma - with exceptions like Brexit. Every week since arriving here - I see demonstrations against far right extremism, against the Tories, even against the glorification of Thatcher. I think the recent chaos in UK politics is just proof that its still working - unlike the US.
My social security benefit - that I have worked for my entire life - is the only thing stopping me from renouncing my citizenship. If the GOP gets their way and takes that - There's no reason to keep a US passport - Reid amendment be damned.
This is a very good question. I am 73 years old now, really, an old man. I was brought up in the suburbs of New Jersey in the 50s and the early 60s and it was a wonderful life. I was lucky and my parents provided me with a good education and I eventually became a lawyer. I can't say I loved the profession, but it was a good living and that and America provided me with many opportunities. I have been a life long Democrat, although perhaps a conservative one. More of a Obama supporter than an AOC supporter. Something happened to me in 2016 that I will never forget. It was in November of that year and my wife and I were on a vacation. In the mid-afternoon I received the information that Donald Trump had been elected as the President of the United States. I was shocked. I was stunned. I was sickened. As someone who grew up in New Jersey I knew Trump very well as a huckster, a con man, a cheat, and a liar. I can't say I was a huge fan of Hilary Clinton, but a Trump victory hit me like a ton of bricks. I should also say that my wife is Brazilian. A number of years ago I decided to apply for and was granted permanent residency in Brazil. OK. So after Trump got elected nothing was ever "right" again. Along with Trump came the ridiculous parade of "advisors," assistants, children, pastors, and the assorted flotsom and jetsam of the American Right. Fox News became a constant drum beater for the gradual disintegration of the country. I was literally sick to my stomach every day. Then in 2020 when President Biden got elected I thought there might be a reprieve. I was wrong. It got worse. Trump remained a daily intrusion in our lives - now supported by Laura Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ted Cruz, etc. The Supreme Court became nothing but a rubber stamp for the personal, sometimes religious, ideas of the conservative majority. The Big Lie that Trump had actually won the 2020 election became accepted dogma in the Republican Party. It was all too much for me. We rented our house in Florida and moved back to Brazil. Is Brazil messed up too. Oh sure - the election between Bolsonaro and Lula proves that in spades. But, somehow it's not really "my" mess. I didn't grow up and live here for decades. I hope for the best in Brazil, but it doesn't carry the existential burden that living in the US does. Yesterday, the 82 year old husband of Speaker Pelosi was attacked in his home by a man with a hammer shouting "where's Nancy" and a Trump appointed Federal District Court Judge in Arizona said it was "constitutional" for armed men in fatigues and face masks could hang around ballot boxes. So, this is America 2022. It's not a place I choose to live anymore. I realize that I am privileged to be able to live outside of the USA and I feel guilty for the people there who want to leave but can't. I'm so sorry.
As anti-Semitism increases in the US, I've always had in the back of my mind to move myself, my kids and my grandkids to Israel (The Law of Return). But I read a message from someone (don't remember who) this morning on Twitter, to stay and fight. I'm staying on Twitter (like you) to fight. Guess I'll stay here, in the country I love to fight against anti-Semitism, too.
If anything, the current trend toward fascism in the US has made me far more patriotic than I've ever felt before. I see the value of democracy in such sharp relief and all the ways I have taken it for granted in the past. I'm not willing to give it up to the kind of people I see associated with the right and Trump. There is a lot to say about how to fight for the rights of our diverse people (black, brown, trans, LGBTQIA), etc.), but first let me acknowledge what a MIRACLE it is that such a strange nation of immigrants and weirdos exists at all. With so little in common, except for the idea that we should be able to choose our leaders, the United States was created and has continued for decades. Not unchallenged, mind you. But I'm not ready to give up just yet. And besides, I never really get the jokes when I visit other countries, and it hurts my sense of humor.
My new wife and I were both born Americans, each of us from different cultures. We each have adult daughters from previous marriages and we share progressive values. No living parents, no grandchildren now or likely.
We both love the idea of America, and have lived the ideals. This coming midterm will be the tipping point, determining where we will finish living and eventually die.
Arles, en Provence, est attractive et nous pourrions nous relocaliser. Une nouvelle citoyenneté peut-être.
My husband and I have thought about this so much recently. We lean towards stay and fight. The town we are in is disintegrating around us (blue dots in a red town) but I love our property. We can live without the town and fight for our rights and liberties.
I’m a second gen American. My grandparents were born and raised in Slovenia. I have visited 3 times and on my second trip for a month I considered a permanent move there. It took another 3 month trip to seal the deal. I found a country where citizens care about other citizens! The civility level is high, you don’t see homeless anywhere in the major cities, nearly everyone speaks English. I was impressed with the idea that farm to table food to be the norm, they are environmentally awake and the streets in Ljubljana where I stayed to be clean, safe anytime of the day or night. With only 2M people traffic jams don’t happen.
Oct 29, 2022·edited Oct 29, 2022Liked by Steven Beschloss
Ireland. It was my great-grandparents who came over, so I don't qualify for the special citizenship program. My parents do, but they are almost 80 and feel it will be too stressful for them to up sticks. But that's where I'd like my daughter and I to end up. Galway or thereabouts. Ireland doesn't need another writer-editor, so maybe I could be a charwoman. (And I am not being facetious. I'm OCD with cleaning.)
I've lived for a time in both Thailand and Mexico in an attempt to see if I could adjust to international living permanently. To be honest, there were things I missed about the U.S. that brought me back. I currently live in AZ where I lived during much of my high school and college years. But if this state goes to the dark side, I will look into relocating back to my home stare of WA where I lived from 2012-2015. I have family and friends there and love the scenery, lifestyle and politics.
I'm having to answer this question in real life because my partner of ten years is Italian and within the next year, I will be relocating to Italy. Up until now, we've been going back and forth. We are in Treviso but our decision now is where to settle permanently. It's exciting but it's also difficult because my daughters and their families are here in the USA. And, I regret to say, part of me welcomes the opportunity to live a quiet life with my beloved away from the rancor of American politics. I'm a therapist and coach and I work online with clients around the world, which I will continue to do. I am curious to see how others are answering your question.
I would move to the UK in a heartbeat, but my husband is less than thrilled at the thought of moving anywhere. A couple of years ago I finally talked him into going to the UK for a 10 day vacation. The fact that neither of us had ever been there, and liberal use of the phrase, “We’re not getting any younger,” finally convinced him.
The day after we arrived in London I started having trouble breathing. By evening I had a high temperature. That night I woke up repeatedly and sat straight up gasping for air. By the next day I realized I was extremely ill and so did my husband.
I remained bedridden for the rest of the vacation and we upgraded to 1st class for the flight home so I could lie down. We got back home at the end of January, 2020 and immediately realized (after listening to the news) that I had Covid. Once I realized I had been ill with Covid I was horrified that I had unknowingly, probably exposed quite a few people to it.
Nobody knows what will happen after Nov. 8th. Some days I feel optimistic, other days I’m despairing. Today there were tons of disgusting, bullying tweets about Paul Pelosi. Now, I realize a good number of those tweets were very likely from bots & paid operatives. But I’m really, really tired of the incivility.
Most individuals in the republican party--or what’s left of it--men and women alike, seem to have adopted the behavior of their grossly immature and imbecilic leader, as if they are all 14 yr old boys, taunting and bullying innocent people. And if they aren’t sufficiently servile, don’t emulate his persona, or worse, express even the mildest criticism, they will be punished. Last I heard, modeling their behavior on a mob boss who acts like a hopped-up 14 yr old boy isn’t what most parents envision for their children. Nobody’s perfect, but when your boss is flushing documents down the toilet or eating them, it’s a dead giveaway that one should consider moving on.
I can’t help but believe if by some miracle voters give Dems the majority in both the House and the Senate, most of the damage can and will be undone. But if that doesn’t happen--and it probably won’t--I don’t know if I can handle bearing witness to further disintegration of my country as it falls apart around me. On the other hand, I may not have a choice.
I have worked in the nonprofit art world my entire life. When I “refire” not retire, it will be to Europe. No car. Live small and well. Visit art. I wish Ireland would reopen citizenship to the great-grandchildren. I am pondering France or Portugal. Purposely, I now only rent and have minimized my belongings. I live lighter so I can leave.
I’ve lived in London and Montreal, several US cities, and s[ent extended working visits in other places in Europe and Asia. I’d happily return to Montreal, after relearning French. I don’t mind cold weather; the food in Quebec is wonderful and the city is very cosmopolitan. There’s sufficient public transit so that I can avoid driving in the snow.
Second choice would also be Canada: Halifax; a lovely university city with a solid economy and beautiful setting.
I share your opinion that "a week here or a week there" is insufficient to truly experience and get to know a place. I have talked to my wife about seeing America by actually moving to a city, taking up residence, and, over the course of a year, get to know the place. That year would be spent exploring environs in and around that city. Then, move to a new place.
Same for exploring the world.
Mark Twain said, "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."
Interesting exercise - We'd choose France, where a moderate temporarily de-fanged both extreme right and left parties to elect Emanuel Macron. I'm still hoping that the USA recovers from its madness by 2024, although there are steps along the way that are hard to take. Most immediate therapy would be to pass the bipartisan Senate Bill (S.4573) Electoral Count Reform Act, which is the best way to avoid January 6, 2025 from being worse than 2021.
I've been asking this question of myself for a long time..Language seems to be a recurring issue, but not the first, and not one that cannot be over come..For me the first thing that I would consider to arrive at the would be candidates is this question: Who, on a regular basis is not in the news? If I were to begin to get serious about this I would collect the names of these places and start the research on each..Drawing down on the criteria they would need to meet..
Several years ago, way before all of this chaos, we actually were prepared to move to New Zealand. I have always been fascinated by its remoteness, and the people I have met from there have been real. If we had just been two years younger, we would have moved. They had a cut-off on age to emigrate for work, so we could have moved, but without a work permit, which we couldn't get national health care. Same with Canada, which would have been a choice, but it's too cold for too long. Fortunately, we live in a great part of the country (East Tennessee), even though it is the belt buckle of the bible belt, and I am not religious, and it is very red. Hard to find friends because their first question is, "What church do you belong?" and then, "Ain't Trump just the greatest?" Tough, but we can see the Great Smoky Mountains NP from our front porch and there are those patches of blue just up the road in Knoxville (GO VOLS). A little isolating if you are a Democrat, or lean that way, but there are no income taxes and we seem to always have the lowest gas prices. Never could figure out why, but hey, you take what you get.
Born in Ohio-I lived in Hawaii for two years in grad school, China for a year Japan for two years and Senegal for six weeks. Now six weeks in Italy! Hope I never have to stop traveling!! But AZ has been home for 38 years. I chose sunshine over snow and ice. People need to realize they have options! Exercise them!!! YOU CAN MOVE!!!
I decided to leave the States when Reagan was re-elected because I started to see the kind of America that has evolved into the America of today because of the Republican Party. I can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like living there today. I currently live in France but I want to leave. I’d love to live in Belgium.
Over a year ago, I began the process of getting residency in Portugal, which for an older person was the easiest and least expensive in Europe. Also one of the only countries where I could keep my US citizenship - just in case the country regains its sanity and safety. As a Jew, America may not be safe anymore and though difficult to imagine, we may all become refugees. Maybe Muslims and Black Americans, Asian-Americans etc. will have to flee also. Canada only wants young and healthy people or those with more money than I can spare. My children's father (my ex) got them and our grandkids German citizenship because his parents fled Nazi Germany and Germany offers citizenship to descendants of those who fled. Can you imagine American Jews feeling the need to flee the US and being saved by Germany? I just don't know if I can convince the kids to leave - and I don't want to leave without them...and didn't want to be stuck here if they get to Europe with their German citizenship. Of course, I don't know if Europe will be safe either. Will there be anywhere safe from fascism? I don't know. I think Putin has already started WWIII. I grew up after WWII and always knew...and told my kids, metaphorically..."always keep a bag packed." We Jews all had a good life in the US for decades. That may be over. And like the Nazis, this group of fascists will also go after LGBTQ+ people.. maybe those with disabilities, too, in addition to Jews and other non-white, non-Christian or not the right kind of Christian folk. I expect a lot of violence regardless of who wins the elections next week. There clearly were plans on Jan 6 to kill Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer..and the incitement by MTG and others against Pelosi, accusing her of treason (which is what DJT and his sick acolytes are guilty of) led to yesterday's invasion of her home and attack on her husband. Had Paul not called the police right away, he'd probably be dead and if Nancy were there, she'd probably be dead also. And if Rs win, I expect rapid takeover of the government and a lot of violence. The rule of law will be gone. They will impeach or kill (well, have their crazy followers kill) Biden, Harris, Pelosi...and keep going until they get to a a legislator in the line of succession who is a Republican. We are past early Nazi Germany. We are about at the Kristallnacht moment. I hope Dems win next week and we save the US. We will need to do a massive job of revamping our educational system, quickly arrest those who stoke violence from DJT on down, pass voting protections that will stick, expand the Court, and develop a new version of the Fairness Doctrine so that it applies to all media. No more "alternative facts." Facts and differing opinions is what America used to be about. Sadly, I don't have much hope we can do all that. America has been invaded and DOJ is not fast enough to deal with the domestic enemies or Putin, who has been behind all of this through his useful idiots - DJT, Bannon, Stone, etc. Sliver of hope...but Nov 8 determines it.
We moved to Canada from SoCal in 2005, and love where we live (Vancouver Island). But thinking of where else in the world we might live - Portugal (Porto area) tops our list.
I'm from California. I live in Australia. No regrets. The current situation in America is frightening!
Murdoch's far right propaganda media machine has made inroads here and is relentless with political disinformation and smear of but the newish Prime Minister and government is progressive and capable. I'm hopeful here.
While I watch the US divide and the US Constitution and judiciary struggle for relevance I find myself voting from abroad. Following closely every race and debate. I feel strongly that voting and democracy is now the only way the American 'vision' can survive. Let's hope our voters get it right in the midterms.
I have worked and lived in Japan and would live in Okinawa. The language is a barrier but easily overcome with any translation app. The people are sweet, service is exceptional, healthcare amenities are excellent and affordable. I had surgery while working there and it was not only successful with skilled surgeons, but less than 1/3 the cost of American equivalent. The heat in the summer is a drawback but I could visit family during the summer. Don’t they do something similar in Arizona?
I have also lived and worked in Germany and my great grandfather is German. I very much could live there but I watch closely what is happening with their government right now.
My husband and I will stay here and fight the good fight. We considered a move to Vancouver BC when Trump took Office but relaxed a bit when Biden was elected. We are both students of history so
have picked up and brushed off the books on our shelves on the Revolution, Civil War, & World Wars along with the histories on the struggles of the 50s, 60s and 70s to remind ourselves that we can overcome this.
Nonetheless, we will hold the BC option in reserve. We explored other options (UK, Sweden, Iceland, France, New Zealand, Japan, a few of the Caribbean Islands, for example) all places we have worked or were residents at one time. However, we find most countries are not so welcoming to retired folks with modest incomes and finances. We can meet most of their requirements for residency but it would require us to sell off our home and most other assets to do so. In other words, it would be a full commitment. We're just not willing to give up on the US, yet.
We continue to follow the political scene, participate in getting the vote out, and gnash our teeth at the chipping away of civility in political discourse and rhetoric, equal rights, & social equality. Our grandchildren give us hope as they take up the torch for democratic rights & issues. I have a lot of faith in this new, bright and committed generation. We would like to be here to support them and celebrate their victories. We will continue to be allies and supporters of the minority communities in our community. We will stand by our Jewish, Muslim and other religious communities under attack. We stand for and visibly support our Native Amercan Black, Brown, and Asian neighbors. We welcome our new Eastern European, African, Central and South American neighbors seeking refuge and a new life here in America. We will continue to do this as our nation struggles to remember who and what we all are.
Steven! What a timely/fraught/terrifying/smart question to engage with.
After 2016, though actually even before, we have researched and looked into the right of return to Germany (the right coming from having been forced to flee in May 1938). Documentation is clear and now ready for any generation willing to undertake... especially since the Holocaust survivor generation is no longer with us. This right flows from my husband’s father’s family. Israel would also be an option. Neither necessarily ameliorates the reality of being Jewish in 2022 and beyond or being a proponent of democracy in an increasingly autocratic world.
My natal family has both deep, long tap roots (1600’s on mother’s side) in Nova Scotia and Northern Maine (not Jewish) and short tenuous roots from Lithuania and England (1911 on my father’s; Jewish).
Where to go? I was born in Switzerland, with no claim to citizenship as a child of American diplomats. I have lived in countries ruled by military junta, fractious parliamentary governments, monarchies with illiberal bent and with democratic bent. I have watched the determined slide to illiberal democracy here from a very “red” state for more than 30 years and I will say that what confounds me more than the outrageous is the quotidian, quiet and self-absorbed folks who ignore challenges to broader rights when they themselves remain personally unhampered. This is more unnerving than the challenge that a Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis pose -- they tell you who they are and aspire to be. They are obvious in their hatred.
At the end of the day I think I have to remain in America, live out my more limited days in deep and open confrontation with American fascism, but perhaps from a more friendly perch closer to the sea.
My husband and I play this game too: recalling Yellow Submarine - where are we going Max? Argentina? Except we then say a multitude of places: New Zealand - no assault weapons; British Colombia - so beautiful; some secluded island in the Pacific - anywhere away from hatred and violence…
I’m responding here from Portugal, where I moved with my wife and tween-teen kids in August. While we are still adjusting to life here, the experience has been fantastic, in general. We lived in China for about ten years during the ‘oughts, and one of the best parts of that time, in retrospect, was the “freedom from media” to which I gradually became accustomed while living overseas (and within a breathtakingly tight censorship regime…but that’s a different subject). While I love being an expatriate again, after ten years of Los Angeles, the best aspect of life outside the U.S. is the ability to *choose* the media I consume, without randomly bumping into fascist diatribes in airport lounges or wherever. Even the media commentators yelling about the corruption and misinformation of American media are ridiculous. It’s not the fault of any individual, or even of any single media company, but it’s a disaster and I’m relieved to feel a bit of separation — especially during the political season.
“America, America” is a wonderful effort, and I’m sticking with you — especially now that I’ve freed myself from Twitter (again, hopefully for the last time — highly recommended, by the way!).
I hope you will remain steadfast to this mission—America, our love and solace, needs your message desperately.
Montevideo. But I'm staying right here in Rancho Mirage. As they say, the grass is always greener. We are a nation of complainers, when the reality is, we have it better than 95% or so of the world.
I am an immigrant to this country. I have been a voting citizen since 1986. I grew up in Austria, have lived in England, Jamaica, and the United States. I lost my Austrian citizenship almost 50 years ago when I applied for Jamaican citizenship (in order to live there with my husband) without asking permission. I am still angry that my birth country rejects me. Besides, Austria is as corrupt as countries can be. I hate their politics almost as much as ours here. I have a daughter who lives in England with her family. Her husband is Irish. Their daughter, born in London, is British by birth, has an EU passport via her father, and an American one via her mother. I love England. Their politics? Good riddance to Liz Truss, and thank heavens, the Struwelpeter opted out. Who know what’s next. I left Jamaica because of its political violence. That has not improved since 1978. Besides, half of Jamaica now seems to be owned by the Chinese.
I look at these three countries and can’t say that any of them are better--or worse for that matter--than the United States. I have frequently thought that I must leave here, that I cannot bear to remain here. I am not Jewish. I am not Black. I am not Hispanic. I am not gay. I am not young enough to get pregnant and need an abortion. I am not a drug addict. I am not in need of expensive healthcare. Short of being in an accident, being raped, or developing some life threatening condition, I’m fine. I’m not going to go hungry even if I lose my social security. I know how lucky I am. But I’m also old. And to me, one of the worst things about getting old is the realization that I won’t be here 50 years from now to see what the world is like in 2070. That pisses me off. I seriously want to come back--as a sentient spirit if nothing else--to satisfy my curiosity. So it doesn’t matter. To me. It matters a great deal to people less lucky than me, to the next generation, to my children (I have two and their families in the States) and their children, and to all the people targeted for one reason or the other.
My point is there’s no where to go. We must win this election. We must win more senate seats. We must stave off the MAGA danger. And we MUST hold trump and his enablers to account. Then perhaps we can save his deplorable followers by proving to them that democracy works, and that their lives WILL, in fact, be better.
I am in tears reading all of the thoughtful replies. I feel so stuck here in Idaho because it has become unbearable with state legislators that are election deniers and peddle conspiracy theories. But I don't have enough money saved to leave to another state let alone another country.
That being said, I no longer believe the polls. I truly feel our younger generations and women will show up on November 8th and help make America right. #fingerscrossed
I have travelled across my country of Canada extensively, via train, air plane and driving. I have seen every one of our 10 provinces, EXCEPT Newfoundland, which is a 7 +/- hour ride each way, on a Ferry from Nova Scotia, my current location. Much of my mobility was driven by work and life choices. The most recent Census indicates than more than 1/3 of Canada's population is made up of immigrants. As such, Canada has a a depth of diversity and cultural range. Relative tolerance prevails, but as in other countries, there are outliers and malcontents. I am ever grateful to be a Canadian, and have the opportunities to travel and live in many locations. My nomadic lifestyle has allowed me to see amazing vistas, like Banff and Jasper and the Rocky Mountains, the grasslands and endless Prairies, rugged rock face in northern Ontario in contrast to the Golden Horseshoe area around Lake Ontario. My most recent journey took me east to the Maritimes, where I reached the Atlantic Ocean. The province of Nova Scotia is my mother's birthplace, and I followed the path from her roots in Truro, to where she attended Acadia University in Wolfville. I also drove north through Cape Breton Island to North Sydney, she worked and met my father, while he was serving in the Navy. And I lived what was once a far-away dream of visiting PEI, where I walked my dog on the red clay shores of Canada's smallest province. There I visited the birth place of Lucy Maude Montgomery, author of Anne of Green Gables, and watched the Standardbred's race in Summerside. Travelling has been exciting, fulfilling and at times challenging, I look forward to visiting the northern Territories and seeing the Whales, and even Polar bears, the latter from a safe distance. Life is a journey. The farther we travel from where we were, the closer we may get to where we were meant to be. : )
My husband and I made the decision to move to Mexico upon our retirement which coincided with Trump's election. Although not a primary reason, it was a factor persuading us to jump ship. Primarily we wanted to live more comfortably and afford to travel more by living somewhere with a lower cost of living. And as noted elsewhere Mexico is a welcoming, scenically and culturally beautiful country, and yes, not without its own unique problems. But we could not escape the politics, the polarization, and the rise in racial and religious bigotry facilitated by TFG. Our fellow expats who are Canadian are shocked and we are at a loss to explain why it's happening. It is disgusting and embarassing to be known as an American outside the U.S. We do not believe the country will ever recover from this degenerative slide toward theocracy and authoritarianism. Fortunately we can still vote from abroad, we do pay taxes unfortunately, and we cast them in a purple state so we feel that we have an impact.
We have lived from October to May in Mexico since 2000. The view of the US from here is not flattering. We are treated so kindly here in a culture where caring for each other and mutual respect are bedrock principles. Some inconveniences living in a third world country have become minor in an atmosphere of smiles and delight. The fresh foods are wonderful!
Just at the tail end of six weeks in Italy. Living in Bologna for a month. I know the neighborhood, streets,museums, cafes, restaurants ,shops and became close to many new friends. Concerns about government medical options jobs are universal. Living in a community is more important than ticking off sights seen. Wish I knew more Italian but folks are forgiving. Especially enlightening meeting young students. Talking with them about aspirations and the challenges of planning a future in such fraught times. Impressed with youthful optimism. Aware of adult concerns. Italy & Italians are spectacular. But, so is Arizona! Home in a week! Enriched in so many ways. Concerned about how I will ever make my own cappuccino!! Filled with the joys of this experience.
I choose upstate New York in Saratoga Springs or any other State or Territory where respect for each other is strong and protected. The United States is a republic and each state, indigenous sovereign nation or territory is a bastion for self governance and protection.
I dream about getting the hell outta here. This is not how it was supposed to be in my senioryears. The insanity and corruption along with the lies and conspiracies are sick. Everyday I look for MG to indict. I feel stuck. I wanna say I hate it here but then that's not patriotic. What does that even mean anymore?
My ancestors came here in the early 1700s. Lived in central PA when it was the frontier, founded a Methodist church which still holds services to this day. They & relatives all buried in cemetery where I will join them when day comes. So, English, Scot, Welsh, & German = American for me, & that is what I intend to stay. I have never run away from anything & don't intend to now ( although I would like to hop a bus out of Florida. )
I am 85. Too old to leave, but I prey my kids and grand kids do for their sake. But this country, but its over. Living here is sad and scary. I dread elections now. I wonder why anyone would consider visiting here much less coming to this sorry place to live. The details are too sick to list. I apologize to lose who come after me. This place is a mindless wreck.
I’m old and speak one language - badly. So any new country would have to have English at least as a frequently used 2nd language. Would it make a difference? Nationalists (Fascists) seem to have a plan for a new world order. They are using the norms in free Republics to gain power than making efforts to assure they keep it.
Our World Wars were caused by Nationalist views trumping a world view. Its seems like we’re living in a prelude to WWWIII. Of course the nuclear capabilities of so many countries doesn’t bold well for us no matter who wins. Sadly, a catastrophic war might not be bad for nature if a it wiped out half the world population. The earth could rebound from the brink of our climate disaster.
UK would be high on the list having lived there for three years as an expat, but now we can’t even open a bank account. In a world increasingly hostile to immigrants it is doubtful my top choices would be realistic options.
Hubby and I have explored Panama and considering Portugal. Actually visited Panama and found we were touring with many from the States who were looking at Panama as a way to protect their money. We were looking to escape right-wing, and now worse, extremism.
My husband and I couldn't possibly afford to relocate anywhere, and besides, the question then becomes, which country would have us, anyway? If my pipe dream were to come true, it would definitely be to the UK because of the language issue, although their weather isn't much better than ours. I've heard Greece is very accepting of American ex-pats, but then of course there's the language roadblock. If we win the lottery, we'll definitely be looking to get the heck out of the USA, which I never thought I'd ever say, but with all the divisiveness here now it seems staying here augers a very bleak future.
May I say: I didn’t anticipate the outpouring of deeply felt thoughts and experiences on this topic. I greatly appreciate it. But more, it underscores how unsettled these last years have been for so many of us who seek better.
I made my decision. After reading the transcripts in the Dobbs case, I decided that the USA was on its last legs. The question was how long would the slide from democracy to a theocracy that would make Margaret Atwood shudder. I started the process of emigration in January and Moved at the end of June.
I chose the UK. I have visited here often since childhood. I have always loved everything about this country - The people have always been amazing, the history and culture are phenomenal, and the geography and weather have always appealed to me. It was no choice. When I fled America it would be to either the UK or mainland Europe, probably Germany. I was able to find a job here, and got my Visa in a reasonable time - even with the Ukraine crisis.
As a Gay man with a family - I could not risk staying in the US, particularly in Texas. There is no place in the US safe from the Talibangelicals and Q-Cumbers. There is no Blue state - only red states with pockets of Blue. By the Time Dobbs was released, my Visa was in hand. Clarence Thomas' concurrence just proved that I was right. They were coming for me next. Congress would make noise, but do nothing. In fact, short of an amendment - which would not happen - what could they do that the Trump court would not strike down. Democrats had already proved that they were too cowardly to expand the court - which is the only thing that would stop the ideologues.
Yes - a lot of the same forces destroying the US are also at play here. I think Europes experience with Fascism makes them more resistant - They aren't brainwashed since birth by the idea of their own exceptionalism just because of the mistake of their citizenship. They seem more apt to believe fact over dogma - with exceptions like Brexit. Every week since arriving here - I see demonstrations against far right extremism, against the Tories, even against the glorification of Thatcher. I think the recent chaos in UK politics is just proof that its still working - unlike the US.
My social security benefit - that I have worked for my entire life - is the only thing stopping me from renouncing my citizenship. If the GOP gets their way and takes that - There's no reason to keep a US passport - Reid amendment be damned.
This is a very good question. I am 73 years old now, really, an old man. I was brought up in the suburbs of New Jersey in the 50s and the early 60s and it was a wonderful life. I was lucky and my parents provided me with a good education and I eventually became a lawyer. I can't say I loved the profession, but it was a good living and that and America provided me with many opportunities. I have been a life long Democrat, although perhaps a conservative one. More of a Obama supporter than an AOC supporter. Something happened to me in 2016 that I will never forget. It was in November of that year and my wife and I were on a vacation. In the mid-afternoon I received the information that Donald Trump had been elected as the President of the United States. I was shocked. I was stunned. I was sickened. As someone who grew up in New Jersey I knew Trump very well as a huckster, a con man, a cheat, and a liar. I can't say I was a huge fan of Hilary Clinton, but a Trump victory hit me like a ton of bricks. I should also say that my wife is Brazilian. A number of years ago I decided to apply for and was granted permanent residency in Brazil. OK. So after Trump got elected nothing was ever "right" again. Along with Trump came the ridiculous parade of "advisors," assistants, children, pastors, and the assorted flotsom and jetsam of the American Right. Fox News became a constant drum beater for the gradual disintegration of the country. I was literally sick to my stomach every day. Then in 2020 when President Biden got elected I thought there might be a reprieve. I was wrong. It got worse. Trump remained a daily intrusion in our lives - now supported by Laura Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ted Cruz, etc. The Supreme Court became nothing but a rubber stamp for the personal, sometimes religious, ideas of the conservative majority. The Big Lie that Trump had actually won the 2020 election became accepted dogma in the Republican Party. It was all too much for me. We rented our house in Florida and moved back to Brazil. Is Brazil messed up too. Oh sure - the election between Bolsonaro and Lula proves that in spades. But, somehow it's not really "my" mess. I didn't grow up and live here for decades. I hope for the best in Brazil, but it doesn't carry the existential burden that living in the US does. Yesterday, the 82 year old husband of Speaker Pelosi was attacked in his home by a man with a hammer shouting "where's Nancy" and a Trump appointed Federal District Court Judge in Arizona said it was "constitutional" for armed men in fatigues and face masks could hang around ballot boxes. So, this is America 2022. It's not a place I choose to live anymore. I realize that I am privileged to be able to live outside of the USA and I feel guilty for the people there who want to leave but can't. I'm so sorry.
As anti-Semitism increases in the US, I've always had in the back of my mind to move myself, my kids and my grandkids to Israel (The Law of Return). But I read a message from someone (don't remember who) this morning on Twitter, to stay and fight. I'm staying on Twitter (like you) to fight. Guess I'll stay here, in the country I love to fight against anti-Semitism, too.
The highlands of Scotland.
If anything, the current trend toward fascism in the US has made me far more patriotic than I've ever felt before. I see the value of democracy in such sharp relief and all the ways I have taken it for granted in the past. I'm not willing to give it up to the kind of people I see associated with the right and Trump. There is a lot to say about how to fight for the rights of our diverse people (black, brown, trans, LGBTQIA), etc.), but first let me acknowledge what a MIRACLE it is that such a strange nation of immigrants and weirdos exists at all. With so little in common, except for the idea that we should be able to choose our leaders, the United States was created and has continued for decades. Not unchallenged, mind you. But I'm not ready to give up just yet. And besides, I never really get the jokes when I visit other countries, and it hurts my sense of humor.
My new wife and I were both born Americans, each of us from different cultures. We each have adult daughters from previous marriages and we share progressive values. No living parents, no grandchildren now or likely.
We both love the idea of America, and have lived the ideals. This coming midterm will be the tipping point, determining where we will finish living and eventually die.
Arles, en Provence, est attractive et nous pourrions nous relocaliser. Une nouvelle citoyenneté peut-être.
My husband and I have thought about this so much recently. We lean towards stay and fight. The town we are in is disintegrating around us (blue dots in a red town) but I love our property. We can live without the town and fight for our rights and liberties.
I’m a second gen American. My grandparents were born and raised in Slovenia. I have visited 3 times and on my second trip for a month I considered a permanent move there. It took another 3 month trip to seal the deal. I found a country where citizens care about other citizens! The civility level is high, you don’t see homeless anywhere in the major cities, nearly everyone speaks English. I was impressed with the idea that farm to table food to be the norm, they are environmentally awake and the streets in Ljubljana where I stayed to be clean, safe anytime of the day or night. With only 2M people traffic jams don’t happen.
Ireland. It was my great-grandparents who came over, so I don't qualify for the special citizenship program. My parents do, but they are almost 80 and feel it will be too stressful for them to up sticks. But that's where I'd like my daughter and I to end up. Galway or thereabouts. Ireland doesn't need another writer-editor, so maybe I could be a charwoman. (And I am not being facetious. I'm OCD with cleaning.)
I've lived for a time in both Thailand and Mexico in an attempt to see if I could adjust to international living permanently. To be honest, there were things I missed about the U.S. that brought me back. I currently live in AZ where I lived during much of my high school and college years. But if this state goes to the dark side, I will look into relocating back to my home stare of WA where I lived from 2012-2015. I have family and friends there and love the scenery, lifestyle and politics.
I'm having to answer this question in real life because my partner of ten years is Italian and within the next year, I will be relocating to Italy. Up until now, we've been going back and forth. We are in Treviso but our decision now is where to settle permanently. It's exciting but it's also difficult because my daughters and their families are here in the USA. And, I regret to say, part of me welcomes the opportunity to live a quiet life with my beloved away from the rancor of American politics. I'm a therapist and coach and I work online with clients around the world, which I will continue to do. I am curious to see how others are answering your question.
I would move to the UK in a heartbeat, but my husband is less than thrilled at the thought of moving anywhere. A couple of years ago I finally talked him into going to the UK for a 10 day vacation. The fact that neither of us had ever been there, and liberal use of the phrase, “We’re not getting any younger,” finally convinced him.
The day after we arrived in London I started having trouble breathing. By evening I had a high temperature. That night I woke up repeatedly and sat straight up gasping for air. By the next day I realized I was extremely ill and so did my husband.
I remained bedridden for the rest of the vacation and we upgraded to 1st class for the flight home so I could lie down. We got back home at the end of January, 2020 and immediately realized (after listening to the news) that I had Covid. Once I realized I had been ill with Covid I was horrified that I had unknowingly, probably exposed quite a few people to it.
Nobody knows what will happen after Nov. 8th. Some days I feel optimistic, other days I’m despairing. Today there were tons of disgusting, bullying tweets about Paul Pelosi. Now, I realize a good number of those tweets were very likely from bots & paid operatives. But I’m really, really tired of the incivility.
Most individuals in the republican party--or what’s left of it--men and women alike, seem to have adopted the behavior of their grossly immature and imbecilic leader, as if they are all 14 yr old boys, taunting and bullying innocent people. And if they aren’t sufficiently servile, don’t emulate his persona, or worse, express even the mildest criticism, they will be punished. Last I heard, modeling their behavior on a mob boss who acts like a hopped-up 14 yr old boy isn’t what most parents envision for their children. Nobody’s perfect, but when your boss is flushing documents down the toilet or eating them, it’s a dead giveaway that one should consider moving on.
I can’t help but believe if by some miracle voters give Dems the majority in both the House and the Senate, most of the damage can and will be undone. But if that doesn’t happen--and it probably won’t--I don’t know if I can handle bearing witness to further disintegration of my country as it falls apart around me. On the other hand, I may not have a choice.
I have worked in the nonprofit art world my entire life. When I “refire” not retire, it will be to Europe. No car. Live small and well. Visit art. I wish Ireland would reopen citizenship to the great-grandchildren. I am pondering France or Portugal. Purposely, I now only rent and have minimized my belongings. I live lighter so I can leave.
I’ve lived in London and Montreal, several US cities, and s[ent extended working visits in other places in Europe and Asia. I’d happily return to Montreal, after relearning French. I don’t mind cold weather; the food in Quebec is wonderful and the city is very cosmopolitan. There’s sufficient public transit so that I can avoid driving in the snow.
Second choice would also be Canada: Halifax; a lovely university city with a solid economy and beautiful setting.
But
Ireland 🇮🇪
I share your opinion that "a week here or a week there" is insufficient to truly experience and get to know a place. I have talked to my wife about seeing America by actually moving to a city, taking up residence, and, over the course of a year, get to know the place. That year would be spent exploring environs in and around that city. Then, move to a new place.
Same for exploring the world.
Mark Twain said, "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."
We are staying (Pittsburgh, PA, here). American Democracy needs to be reestablished. Here is why, from 1940, a similar time:
https://medium.com/liecatcher/why-democracy-928725232ba1
NEVER VOTE FOR A DIVISIVE LIAR -- Geo. Wash. 1797
Interesting exercise - We'd choose France, where a moderate temporarily de-fanged both extreme right and left parties to elect Emanuel Macron. I'm still hoping that the USA recovers from its madness by 2024, although there are steps along the way that are hard to take. Most immediate therapy would be to pass the bipartisan Senate Bill (S.4573) Electoral Count Reform Act, which is the best way to avoid January 6, 2025 from being worse than 2021.
I've been asking this question of myself for a long time..Language seems to be a recurring issue, but not the first, and not one that cannot be over come..For me the first thing that I would consider to arrive at the would be candidates is this question: Who, on a regular basis is not in the news? If I were to begin to get serious about this I would collect the names of these places and start the research on each..Drawing down on the criteria they would need to meet..
Several years ago, way before all of this chaos, we actually were prepared to move to New Zealand. I have always been fascinated by its remoteness, and the people I have met from there have been real. If we had just been two years younger, we would have moved. They had a cut-off on age to emigrate for work, so we could have moved, but without a work permit, which we couldn't get national health care. Same with Canada, which would have been a choice, but it's too cold for too long. Fortunately, we live in a great part of the country (East Tennessee), even though it is the belt buckle of the bible belt, and I am not religious, and it is very red. Hard to find friends because their first question is, "What church do you belong?" and then, "Ain't Trump just the greatest?" Tough, but we can see the Great Smoky Mountains NP from our front porch and there are those patches of blue just up the road in Knoxville (GO VOLS). A little isolating if you are a Democrat, or lean that way, but there are no income taxes and we seem to always have the lowest gas prices. Never could figure out why, but hey, you take what you get.
Born in Ohio-I lived in Hawaii for two years in grad school, China for a year Japan for two years and Senegal for six weeks. Now six weeks in Italy! Hope I never have to stop traveling!! But AZ has been home for 38 years. I chose sunshine over snow and ice. People need to realize they have options! Exercise them!!! YOU CAN MOVE!!!
I decided to leave the States when Reagan was re-elected because I started to see the kind of America that has evolved into the America of today because of the Republican Party. I can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like living there today. I currently live in France but I want to leave. I’d love to live in Belgium.
We have often thought that Costa Rica would be a great retirement location, but now it may be our refuge as well.
Over a year ago, I began the process of getting residency in Portugal, which for an older person was the easiest and least expensive in Europe. Also one of the only countries where I could keep my US citizenship - just in case the country regains its sanity and safety. As a Jew, America may not be safe anymore and though difficult to imagine, we may all become refugees. Maybe Muslims and Black Americans, Asian-Americans etc. will have to flee also. Canada only wants young and healthy people or those with more money than I can spare. My children's father (my ex) got them and our grandkids German citizenship because his parents fled Nazi Germany and Germany offers citizenship to descendants of those who fled. Can you imagine American Jews feeling the need to flee the US and being saved by Germany? I just don't know if I can convince the kids to leave - and I don't want to leave without them...and didn't want to be stuck here if they get to Europe with their German citizenship. Of course, I don't know if Europe will be safe either. Will there be anywhere safe from fascism? I don't know. I think Putin has already started WWIII. I grew up after WWII and always knew...and told my kids, metaphorically..."always keep a bag packed." We Jews all had a good life in the US for decades. That may be over. And like the Nazis, this group of fascists will also go after LGBTQ+ people.. maybe those with disabilities, too, in addition to Jews and other non-white, non-Christian or not the right kind of Christian folk. I expect a lot of violence regardless of who wins the elections next week. There clearly were plans on Jan 6 to kill Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer..and the incitement by MTG and others against Pelosi, accusing her of treason (which is what DJT and his sick acolytes are guilty of) led to yesterday's invasion of her home and attack on her husband. Had Paul not called the police right away, he'd probably be dead and if Nancy were there, she'd probably be dead also. And if Rs win, I expect rapid takeover of the government and a lot of violence. The rule of law will be gone. They will impeach or kill (well, have their crazy followers kill) Biden, Harris, Pelosi...and keep going until they get to a a legislator in the line of succession who is a Republican. We are past early Nazi Germany. We are about at the Kristallnacht moment. I hope Dems win next week and we save the US. We will need to do a massive job of revamping our educational system, quickly arrest those who stoke violence from DJT on down, pass voting protections that will stick, expand the Court, and develop a new version of the Fairness Doctrine so that it applies to all media. No more "alternative facts." Facts and differing opinions is what America used to be about. Sadly, I don't have much hope we can do all that. America has been invaded and DOJ is not fast enough to deal with the domestic enemies or Putin, who has been behind all of this through his useful idiots - DJT, Bannon, Stone, etc. Sliver of hope...but Nov 8 determines it.
We moved to Canada from SoCal in 2005, and love where we live (Vancouver Island). But thinking of where else in the world we might live - Portugal (Porto area) tops our list.
Barcelona suburbs Canet de Mar probably
The America we should be.
I'm from California. I live in Australia. No regrets. The current situation in America is frightening!
Murdoch's far right propaganda media machine has made inroads here and is relentless with political disinformation and smear of but the newish Prime Minister and government is progressive and capable. I'm hopeful here.
While I watch the US divide and the US Constitution and judiciary struggle for relevance I find myself voting from abroad. Following closely every race and debate. I feel strongly that voting and democracy is now the only way the American 'vision' can survive. Let's hope our voters get it right in the midterms.
I have worked and lived in Japan and would live in Okinawa. The language is a barrier but easily overcome with any translation app. The people are sweet, service is exceptional, healthcare amenities are excellent and affordable. I had surgery while working there and it was not only successful with skilled surgeons, but less than 1/3 the cost of American equivalent. The heat in the summer is a drawback but I could visit family during the summer. Don’t they do something similar in Arizona?
I have also lived and worked in Germany and my great grandfather is German. I very much could live there but I watch closely what is happening with their government right now.
My husband and I will stay here and fight the good fight. We considered a move to Vancouver BC when Trump took Office but relaxed a bit when Biden was elected. We are both students of history so
have picked up and brushed off the books on our shelves on the Revolution, Civil War, & World Wars along with the histories on the struggles of the 50s, 60s and 70s to remind ourselves that we can overcome this.
Nonetheless, we will hold the BC option in reserve. We explored other options (UK, Sweden, Iceland, France, New Zealand, Japan, a few of the Caribbean Islands, for example) all places we have worked or were residents at one time. However, we find most countries are not so welcoming to retired folks with modest incomes and finances. We can meet most of their requirements for residency but it would require us to sell off our home and most other assets to do so. In other words, it would be a full commitment. We're just not willing to give up on the US, yet.
We continue to follow the political scene, participate in getting the vote out, and gnash our teeth at the chipping away of civility in political discourse and rhetoric, equal rights, & social equality. Our grandchildren give us hope as they take up the torch for democratic rights & issues. I have a lot of faith in this new, bright and committed generation. We would like to be here to support them and celebrate their victories. We will continue to be allies and supporters of the minority communities in our community. We will stand by our Jewish, Muslim and other religious communities under attack. We stand for and visibly support our Native Amercan Black, Brown, and Asian neighbors. We welcome our new Eastern European, African, Central and South American neighbors seeking refuge and a new life here in America. We will continue to do this as our nation struggles to remember who and what we all are.
Steven! What a timely/fraught/terrifying/smart question to engage with.
After 2016, though actually even before, we have researched and looked into the right of return to Germany (the right coming from having been forced to flee in May 1938). Documentation is clear and now ready for any generation willing to undertake... especially since the Holocaust survivor generation is no longer with us. This right flows from my husband’s father’s family. Israel would also be an option. Neither necessarily ameliorates the reality of being Jewish in 2022 and beyond or being a proponent of democracy in an increasingly autocratic world.
My natal family has both deep, long tap roots (1600’s on mother’s side) in Nova Scotia and Northern Maine (not Jewish) and short tenuous roots from Lithuania and England (1911 on my father’s; Jewish).
Where to go? I was born in Switzerland, with no claim to citizenship as a child of American diplomats. I have lived in countries ruled by military junta, fractious parliamentary governments, monarchies with illiberal bent and with democratic bent. I have watched the determined slide to illiberal democracy here from a very “red” state for more than 30 years and I will say that what confounds me more than the outrageous is the quotidian, quiet and self-absorbed folks who ignore challenges to broader rights when they themselves remain personally unhampered. This is more unnerving than the challenge that a Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis pose -- they tell you who they are and aspire to be. They are obvious in their hatred.
At the end of the day I think I have to remain in America, live out my more limited days in deep and open confrontation with American fascism, but perhaps from a more friendly perch closer to the sea.
My husband and I play this game too: recalling Yellow Submarine - where are we going Max? Argentina? Except we then say a multitude of places: New Zealand - no assault weapons; British Colombia - so beautiful; some secluded island in the Pacific - anywhere away from hatred and violence…
I’m responding here from Portugal, where I moved with my wife and tween-teen kids in August. While we are still adjusting to life here, the experience has been fantastic, in general. We lived in China for about ten years during the ‘oughts, and one of the best parts of that time, in retrospect, was the “freedom from media” to which I gradually became accustomed while living overseas (and within a breathtakingly tight censorship regime…but that’s a different subject). While I love being an expatriate again, after ten years of Los Angeles, the best aspect of life outside the U.S. is the ability to *choose* the media I consume, without randomly bumping into fascist diatribes in airport lounges or wherever. Even the media commentators yelling about the corruption and misinformation of American media are ridiculous. It’s not the fault of any individual, or even of any single media company, but it’s a disaster and I’m relieved to feel a bit of separation — especially during the political season.
“America, America” is a wonderful effort, and I’m sticking with you — especially now that I’ve freed myself from Twitter (again, hopefully for the last time — highly recommended, by the way!).
I hope you will remain steadfast to this mission—America, our love and solace, needs your message desperately.
Montevideo. But I'm staying right here in Rancho Mirage. As they say, the grass is always greener. We are a nation of complainers, when the reality is, we have it better than 95% or so of the world.
I am an immigrant to this country. I have been a voting citizen since 1986. I grew up in Austria, have lived in England, Jamaica, and the United States. I lost my Austrian citizenship almost 50 years ago when I applied for Jamaican citizenship (in order to live there with my husband) without asking permission. I am still angry that my birth country rejects me. Besides, Austria is as corrupt as countries can be. I hate their politics almost as much as ours here. I have a daughter who lives in England with her family. Her husband is Irish. Their daughter, born in London, is British by birth, has an EU passport via her father, and an American one via her mother. I love England. Their politics? Good riddance to Liz Truss, and thank heavens, the Struwelpeter opted out. Who know what’s next. I left Jamaica because of its political violence. That has not improved since 1978. Besides, half of Jamaica now seems to be owned by the Chinese.
I look at these three countries and can’t say that any of them are better--or worse for that matter--than the United States. I have frequently thought that I must leave here, that I cannot bear to remain here. I am not Jewish. I am not Black. I am not Hispanic. I am not gay. I am not young enough to get pregnant and need an abortion. I am not a drug addict. I am not in need of expensive healthcare. Short of being in an accident, being raped, or developing some life threatening condition, I’m fine. I’m not going to go hungry even if I lose my social security. I know how lucky I am. But I’m also old. And to me, one of the worst things about getting old is the realization that I won’t be here 50 years from now to see what the world is like in 2070. That pisses me off. I seriously want to come back--as a sentient spirit if nothing else--to satisfy my curiosity. So it doesn’t matter. To me. It matters a great deal to people less lucky than me, to the next generation, to my children (I have two and their families in the States) and their children, and to all the people targeted for one reason or the other.
My point is there’s no where to go. We must win this election. We must win more senate seats. We must stave off the MAGA danger. And we MUST hold trump and his enablers to account. Then perhaps we can save his deplorable followers by proving to them that democracy works, and that their lives WILL, in fact, be better.
I am in tears reading all of the thoughtful replies. I feel so stuck here in Idaho because it has become unbearable with state legislators that are election deniers and peddle conspiracy theories. But I don't have enough money saved to leave to another state let alone another country.
That being said, I no longer believe the polls. I truly feel our younger generations and women will show up on November 8th and help make America right. #fingerscrossed
I have travelled across my country of Canada extensively, via train, air plane and driving. I have seen every one of our 10 provinces, EXCEPT Newfoundland, which is a 7 +/- hour ride each way, on a Ferry from Nova Scotia, my current location. Much of my mobility was driven by work and life choices. The most recent Census indicates than more than 1/3 of Canada's population is made up of immigrants. As such, Canada has a a depth of diversity and cultural range. Relative tolerance prevails, but as in other countries, there are outliers and malcontents. I am ever grateful to be a Canadian, and have the opportunities to travel and live in many locations. My nomadic lifestyle has allowed me to see amazing vistas, like Banff and Jasper and the Rocky Mountains, the grasslands and endless Prairies, rugged rock face in northern Ontario in contrast to the Golden Horseshoe area around Lake Ontario. My most recent journey took me east to the Maritimes, where I reached the Atlantic Ocean. The province of Nova Scotia is my mother's birthplace, and I followed the path from her roots in Truro, to where she attended Acadia University in Wolfville. I also drove north through Cape Breton Island to North Sydney, she worked and met my father, while he was serving in the Navy. And I lived what was once a far-away dream of visiting PEI, where I walked my dog on the red clay shores of Canada's smallest province. There I visited the birth place of Lucy Maude Montgomery, author of Anne of Green Gables, and watched the Standardbred's race in Summerside. Travelling has been exciting, fulfilling and at times challenging, I look forward to visiting the northern Territories and seeing the Whales, and even Polar bears, the latter from a safe distance. Life is a journey. The farther we travel from where we were, the closer we may get to where we were meant to be. : )
My husband and I made the decision to move to Mexico upon our retirement which coincided with Trump's election. Although not a primary reason, it was a factor persuading us to jump ship. Primarily we wanted to live more comfortably and afford to travel more by living somewhere with a lower cost of living. And as noted elsewhere Mexico is a welcoming, scenically and culturally beautiful country, and yes, not without its own unique problems. But we could not escape the politics, the polarization, and the rise in racial and religious bigotry facilitated by TFG. Our fellow expats who are Canadian are shocked and we are at a loss to explain why it's happening. It is disgusting and embarassing to be known as an American outside the U.S. We do not believe the country will ever recover from this degenerative slide toward theocracy and authoritarianism. Fortunately we can still vote from abroad, we do pay taxes unfortunately, and we cast them in a purple state so we feel that we have an impact.
We have lived from October to May in Mexico since 2000. The view of the US from here is not flattering. We are treated so kindly here in a culture where caring for each other and mutual respect are bedrock principles. Some inconveniences living in a third world country have become minor in an atmosphere of smiles and delight. The fresh foods are wonderful!
Marquita
Just at the tail end of six weeks in Italy. Living in Bologna for a month. I know the neighborhood, streets,museums, cafes, restaurants ,shops and became close to many new friends. Concerns about government medical options jobs are universal. Living in a community is more important than ticking off sights seen. Wish I knew more Italian but folks are forgiving. Especially enlightening meeting young students. Talking with them about aspirations and the challenges of planning a future in such fraught times. Impressed with youthful optimism. Aware of adult concerns. Italy & Italians are spectacular. But, so is Arizona! Home in a week! Enriched in so many ways. Concerned about how I will ever make my own cappuccino!! Filled with the joys of this experience.
I choose upstate New York in Saratoga Springs or any other State or Territory where respect for each other is strong and protected. The United States is a republic and each state, indigenous sovereign nation or territory is a bastion for self governance and protection.
I dream about getting the hell outta here. This is not how it was supposed to be in my senioryears. The insanity and corruption along with the lies and conspiracies are sick. Everyday I look for MG to indict. I feel stuck. I wanna say I hate it here but then that's not patriotic. What does that even mean anymore?
My ancestors came here in the early 1700s. Lived in central PA when it was the frontier, founded a Methodist church which still holds services to this day. They & relatives all buried in cemetery where I will join them when day comes. So, English, Scot, Welsh, & German = American for me, & that is what I intend to stay. I have never run away from anything & don't intend to now ( although I would like to hop a bus out of Florida. )
I am 85. Too old to leave, but I prey my kids and grand kids do for their sake. But this country, but its over. Living here is sad and scary. I dread elections now. I wonder why anyone would consider visiting here much less coming to this sorry place to live. The details are too sick to list. I apologize to lose who come after me. This place is a mindless wreck.
I’m old and speak one language - badly. So any new country would have to have English at least as a frequently used 2nd language. Would it make a difference? Nationalists (Fascists) seem to have a plan for a new world order. They are using the norms in free Republics to gain power than making efforts to assure they keep it.
Our World Wars were caused by Nationalist views trumping a world view. Its seems like we’re living in a prelude to WWWIII. Of course the nuclear capabilities of so many countries doesn’t bold well for us no matter who wins. Sadly, a catastrophic war might not be bad for nature if a it wiped out half the world population. The earth could rebound from the brink of our climate disaster.
UK would be high on the list having lived there for three years as an expat, but now we can’t even open a bank account. In a world increasingly hostile to immigrants it is doubtful my top choices would be realistic options.
Hubby and I have explored Panama and considering Portugal. Actually visited Panama and found we were touring with many from the States who were looking at Panama as a way to protect their money. We were looking to escape right-wing, and now worse, extremism.
My husband and I couldn't possibly afford to relocate anywhere, and besides, the question then becomes, which country would have us, anyway? If my pipe dream were to come true, it would definitely be to the UK because of the language issue, although their weather isn't much better than ours. I've heard Greece is very accepting of American ex-pats, but then of course there's the language roadblock. If we win the lottery, we'll definitely be looking to get the heck out of the USA, which I never thought I'd ever say, but with all the divisiveness here now it seems staying here augers a very bleak future.
Canada!